PR- The "ad hominem attack" was not an attack, was a challenge. A multiple choice question. And was not directed to [the blogger], who did not call Amadeu a blind zealot. It was directed at the previous commentator, [B], who did. As this one is directed at the previous commentator [A]. As for the facts, Microsoft does not donate software, at least not in Brazil: it donates licenses no one can read except while installing the object licenced. I did not make the claim that linux is a sovereignty issue, I claimed that Brazil's IT policy is. The people who have sold their loyalty to the company you claim to work for does not ammount to the entire population of Brazil. It may not even encompass all of its employees in Brazil.No hope. No answer as of now, to the questions raised above.And zealotry, as far as I know, starts with this kind of misrepresentation. Amadeu may be a zealot, for his own misrepresentations, which if they are I do not condone, but he is not blind. And finally, forgive me all for the mispelling: [B] has a "Windows XP" (not KP) logo in his personal site, while claiming in the commentary not to be representing the company's interests.
B- http://www.petitiononline.com/amadeu/petition.html Thats only one example. Everything I have read about the man and from the man surely marks him as a zealot. One of your own actually said the same thing on Scobles post. Personally tho, I do find his views very short sighted. He is following in the foot steps of the common Linux zealot. I personally do not see Linux as the cure all, save all for the IT industry. He does, when he wakes up then I might be willing to be more reasonable. Until then, I fully intend to write him off as a zealot. As I stated in my post, I do believe what MS did was overkill but what Amadeu did in the position he holds was very stupid, and short sighted and he SHOULD NOT HAVE SAID WHAT HE SAID. One thing I have learned in this business and from a human standpoint is do not degrade Vendors and treat others as you would want to be treated.
PR- A zealot is not the same as a blind zealot. Pretending you've said one thing when you've said the other, yelding my comment, is sophism. Please, read the comment to [A] to the same post at the same blog. As for the way not to treat people, I choose as standard the way MS licences treat licencees. The most efficient genome to produce linux zealots worldwide, by spontaneus generation.
B- Actually I called him "moronic, stupid and short sighted" . Yes I have read Your response to [A]. Maybe our definitions of short sighted differ. My definition of short sighted is someone who knows the difference between one thing or another, but he cant see past the rhetoric his group puts out and makes arguments and claims to be right even if he knows he is wrong. My definition of Blind is someone who has never used the product before and just plays follow the leader. He bashes a certain group just to fit in with the crowd. Yes Mr. Amadeu knows whats what but he has sided with the Linux community and bases his arguments on rhetoric produced by the Linux community .
As for the facts, Microsoft does not donate software, at least not in Brazil: it donates licences no one can read except while installing the object licenced. I did not make the claim that linux is a sovereignty issue, I claimed that Brazil's IT policy is. The people who have sold their loyalty to the company you claim to work for does not ammount to the entire population of Brazil. It may not even encopass all of its employees in Brazil.How do you know what Microsoft does in Brazil? Are you employed by MS? Do you know what they give away? No, [A] is a MS employee, [A] knows what they give away. And you can read the EULA on Microsofts site, they post their EULA's. Or you can read the EULA on the package of the software you are installing. When MS donates software you get an OEM package and if you miss the EULA you are either blind or you just dont care to read it.As for the way not to treat people, I choose as standard the way MS licences treat licencees. The most efficient genome to produce linux zealots worldwide, by spontaneus generation.See, thats where I guess you and I have a difference experience with them, I have gone to their EEC testing facilities and oh yes I have put in Apache, Open Office, MySQL and a bunch of other OpenSource software and they did not bitch, complain or gripe about it. In fact some of them were more helpful in helping my team configure Apache then that projects own developers. I am not a high volume licensee with Microsoft and I have no gripes with how they operate, my customers dont and my Linux customers dont care. Just because someone doesnt agree with Microsofts licensing agreement does not gibe them the right to degrade Microsoft in public, and it sure doesnt gibe a brazillian government official permission to do so either.
PR- Can you be kind enough to forward me the URL for MS EULAs, and clarify some other nagging questions? The reason I ask you is because every time I was offered a MS "product" by a MS authorized vendor, my answer has allways been to ask to see the license first, and the vendor would never get back to me. I know of reports of people who tried to get their money back after reading the EULA upon instalation, giving up on the deal, tried to return the "product"s media, and never received their money back. I've searched several times for EULAs in MS portals and never found them. Can you be kind enough to help me out of my ignorance?
Or you can read the EULA on the package of the software you are installing. When MS donates software you get an OEM package and if you miss the EULA you are either blind or you just dont care to read it.Correct me if I'm wrong but in OEM packages you mention, but does not point out, the EULA part of the contract itself in not spelled out, only mentioned. At least not the ones I know to have been signed by some government officials in Brazil from the previous administration. Besides, if they are spelled out and include the EULA for the XP "product", there will be a contradiction with the EULA that is actually shown on the screen upon installation, which is known to carry a clause giving the licensor the right to change the license through a future patch installation. A contract can not spell out what has not yet been written.If I ask you to point out an OEM package that spells out the EULA part for the "products" involved, I think I can see where the difficulties may rest. Besides the one pointed out above, as far as I know one can only see a final draft of an OEM when one is about to sign, it or the check. And as far as I know, even when one gets to see the OEM that will bind s/h/it, s/h/it will only get to see an EULA proper when installing a "product".
If I am right, this is where Gates (see http://news.com.com/2100-1023-212942.html?legacy=cnet) and McNealy (in portuguese: http://www.jb.com.br/jb/papel/cadernos/ internet/2001/06/06/jorinf20010606002.html), and for the record Amadeu restating Gates and McNealy, compare such deal with you_know_what: you only get to know what your are buying (or in the case pointed to by [A], getting a sample for free) when you become bound to its effect in your own hardware. Be it the one made of silicon and copper, be it the one made of flesh and bones.
And if you are able to clarify to me where I can see a complete and valid EULA for one "product" printable on paper, how do I know since when this or these EULAs have been posted, or for how long it will be valid for that "product", so as not to make a foolish of myself while writing about them in my articles? Not only me, but also other people? (see http://www.cybersource.com.au/cyber/ about/comparing_the_gpl_to_eula.pdf).
And knowing the ways of the company (see."Microsoft Settles FTC Charges Alleging False Security and Privacy Promises" US Federal Trade Comission,August 8, 2002, http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2002/08/microsoft.htm, accessed on june 2,2003), how do I know that, upon looking at a piece of paper that says "this is the official MS EULA for product X version Y if installed from dates W to Z", this is what I may see when I install the corresponding "product" on a corresponding date?
And even if Z is left as an unknown variable, how do I know how an EULA will change with a patch that may or may not come out? You see, an MS EULA is not like the GPL, which has only changed, in detais, twice over fifteen years, which everyone can see anytime anywhere, and debate its interpretation but not its syntactical content. To round it up, the last question: If EULAs are not ment to be kept hidden, why is it that the window showing the EULA during installation does not have a damned "print" button on it?
You seem unable that the problem here is the lack of something very fundamental, called TRUST, wich can not be build and maintained with sophism and FUD. On the contrary, whatever ammount of trust there is, at the long run it tends to be destroyed bu such way of doing business. And if you care to know the details of what we are all talking about, as MS-Brazil lawyers seem to do, all you have to do is dive into the records of the United States District Court of Columbia Civil action 98-1232 and 98-1233.
See, thats where I guess you and I have a difference experience with them, I have gone to their EEC testing facilities and oh yes I have put in Apache, Open Office, MySQL and a bunch of other OpenSource software and they did not bitch, complain or gripe about it. In fact some of them were more helpful in helping my team configure Apache then that projects own developers. I am not a high volume licensee with Microsoft and I have no gripes with how they operate, my customers dont and my Linux customers dont care. Just because someone doesnt agree with Microsofts licensing agreement does not gibe them the right to degrade Microsoft in public, and it sure doesnt gibe a brazillian government official permission to do so either.Who may or may not give permition to a Brazilian government official to degrade a company in public? I tell you who does: the company's track record. It is not Brazil's official that degrades said company, it is the company track record in judicial courts throughout the world. Some records speak for themselves. What this Brazilian official is doing, is paying attention to that record while doing his job. And his job is to decide or do that which, in his best judgement, is best for his contry. To say or imply that said company is the one who gives such permission, is called imperialism.You seem to be unaware of how the world is changing. You seem to be unaware of how the acts and words of your government now in power are affecting the hearts and minds of people in the rest of the world. This is called arrogance. His and yours. This is not business as usual.
When you talk about degrading, you may not be aware of the history of the country, the role of US secret services and multinationals, either documented or implied, in shaping some of its darkest pages. Implied as in the Bush doctrine documents. So you may be excused to think this way, because you are not a Brazilian. But you would not be so excused if you were a Brazilian with enough sense of dignity and self-respect, who had not sold out your soul for thirty coins of gold. And among those you can count me, to rest our case. After answering in good faith my clarifying questions, i would hope.
To protect myself aganist being sued for slander, even being only a public university professor, I hereby launch a contest. Or cast a challenge, plea, whatever. She ou he who first show me a printable (or printed) official End User Licence Agreement from Microsoft which is complete, valid, with (deterministically) specified validity dates, for using a "product" currently officially deployable, will win a mention of honor at my web page, plus a bonus: preferential treatment to book a visit to me in prison, if I get to be sued and sentenced for the crime of slander commited against said company, for having stated what I state here. This is a statement.
Update Feb 17, 2005.
Having no one presented him/herself so far to claim the price offered by this contest, at having a webpage been spotted at this date showing supposedly a WindowsXP professional edition EULA http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/eula.mspx, we hereby STRESS the need for dates and periods of validity of the EULA for this contest. A proof, for example, that the purported EULA is in fact binding for the product (ie., the one linked above for Windows XP professional edition) today, with validity period determined. Since MS, as usual, does not date nor name the author of its web documents, and given what is reported in http://www.cybersource.com.au/cyber/ about/comparing_the_gpl_to_eula.pdf, this stressing is due and relevant.
Traduzindo, não recebi nenhuma resposta, até o
presente,
para as perguntas colocadas acima. E para me proteger contra
possível
acusação de injúria, calúnia e
difamação,
mesmo sendo apenas um reles professor de ensino púbico,
lanço
aqui o pedido. Pedido, desafio, concurso, apelo, etc. Quem primeiro me
mostrar uma End User Licence Agreement oficial da Microsoft que
seja imprimível (ou esteja impressa), completa, válida e
com prazo de validade especificado (deterministicamente), para uso de
um
"produto" atualmente em catálogo, ganhará como
prêmio
uma citação honrosa na minha página web principal.
E de brinde, tratamento preferencial para a agenda de visitas à
cadeia,
se eu for condenado e preso por calúnia, injúria ou
difamação
contra a empresa, pelas coisas que tenho dito. Tenho dito.
Algum dia em 1794 -
Poeta visionário e místico, publicou em Lambert os versos seguintes no auge do primeiro ciclo da revolução industrial, enquanto espoucava a revolução Francesa, da qual a nossa democracia é filha.Blake viveu, produziu e publicou sua obra literária na matriz do império que se reinventou naquele que hoje cerca esta nossa filha, ameaçando nossa soberania aqui por meio do seu mais celebrado e decadente ícnoe. Os versos abrem the Book of Urizen
Preludium to the Book of Urizen
Of the primeval Priest's assum'd
power,
When Eternals spurn'd back his religion
And gave him a place in the north,
Obsucre, shadowy, void, solitary.
Eternals, I hear you call gladly.
Dictate swift winged words and fear not
To unfold your dark visions of torment.